Now to test All the things:
-his brother’s reaction
-how well Yori obeys
-who twitches first
-Ina’s reaction to Their reactions
-Cho’s Tao sense as the elephant makes a new fence
clogboy
-our reactions to this plot twist
-the Youtube reaction videos to our reactions
I don’t think I’ve been this properly shocked since the ill-fated 3rd season ending of a show called RWBY.
Phil Srobeighn
We don’t talk about the Incident of the Silver Eyes.
animalia555
And here I thought he was talking about Phyrra’s death.
clogboy
It has become such a landmark moment for me and my now wife, that we started using her dying words ironically (with same dramatic emphasis). It became sort of our inside joke, and the line is now engraved in our wedding bands.
Thomas
“Do you believe in destiny?”
Phil Srobeighn
Look, what did I say about not talking about The Incident!? To the Punishment Box, all three of you. xD
animalia555
Never!
Hfar
…Are we certain Ina doesn’t have access to gunpowder weapons as well? ‘Cause she just dropped the mother of all bombs right here.
Xinef
Oh, this one’s thermonuclear.
endplanets
Most Def a violation of the Bro Code
Turul
But since Yori has been disowned, they probably aren’t technically bros anymore…
Tim “Azur3flame” Eldred
Except the whole point of using the DoS was to prove Yori’s worth as an heir, which Eijiro doesn’t know. And Ina isn’t one to throw a bargaining chip or point of leverage away for an easy victory. Especially when SHE is the chip in question. No, I expect she’s playing headgames to create an opening. Yori trusts her, and Eijiro is in a vulnerable position.
Xenocide
Ina has always been the tactical genius, hopefully she is just defusing the situation.
clogboy
In that case, wouldn’t she squander her credibility by siding with Eji’s claim that Yori could never be the heir, only to follow through with a plot that restores Yori’s status? Tricks are for kids. I believe she will want to make this sacrifice.
And it works in more ways than just solidifying the peace treaty. Eji is terribly misguided, but not beyond repair. If anything, she could balance him out.
In fact, what leverage does she have right now. The way parallel scenes go, the battles against Nataku and Honou-Ko are still going on, and until the last minute in their favour. I’m amazed they’re not distracted with all this epicness of epic magnitude going on. However that may be, does Ina know that Nataku tricked Hirotomo into destroying the Daisuke? No. Does she know Nataku hired Daisuke ronin to kill Hirotomo’s wife? No. Her running away is why they’re fighting now, and this is how she ends it: by going full circle (as Alexander mentioned). She has grown, and this battlefield proposal shows it.
Ofcourse she suspects Nataku masterminded everything, but there’s no evidence, and for as far as she knows, Nataku might win the battle. Restoring Yori’s status is still a long shot and she knows this war is bigger than any one person. At least this proposal gets the clan leaders to talk again, and then anything might happen, but Hirotomo will know the value of a strong and loyal ally, along with rewarding strength and victory over other virtues.
Ocean Burning.
On the one hand: I would definitely trust Ina to be able to keep Eijiro under her thumb.
On the other hand: A marriage to a younger brother, when she has already “been with” the older brother (and this is a known fact), is not a recipe for a solid, jealousy-and-shuffleboard-free marriage. Neither does it remove the problem of which son is actually favored for succession.
I notice that Ina didn’t actually say she was going to be the person married to the Wataro heir. She does have two younger sisters, doesn’t she?
clogboy
Whatever it is, she would have prefered to discuss this outside of Yori’s presence. Yori, who by the way also ran away. Either of them would have blocked the original peace treaty, a situation that Nataku abused for his own end, and props to Ina for trying to get it back on track.
It is not a trick. It is penance for their disloyalty, even if they were motivated by perfectly understandable reasons and even if they are subject to archaic, borderline barbaric rule. This outcome makes sense and it’s raising the stakes. To me, it’s a brilliant plot twist.
Ocean Burning.
“It is penance for their disloyalty”? Disloyalty as in, what, betraying the original treaty? You mean the treaty where Yori was supposed to kill Masuhiro to take over the Senshin clan? That treaty?
I’m not saying that Ina shouldn’t marry Eijiro if that’s what she decides is the right strategic move. But I’m afraid I don’t follow your reasoning. Maybe it’s just because I’m a woman. But, being familiar with historical accounts from times that woman had to use marriage as a way to play power politics, I want to have faith in Ina that she will use her marriage as a bargaining chip in a smart way that gives her an advantage. So if she makes the call that marriage to Eijiro will be the most advantageous, I won’t argue with her (at the very least, that way she can keep an eye on him). But as penance? I just can’t imagine any woman, least of all Ina, marrying someone as penance.
I believe that Ina is doing what she’s doing, and saying what she’s saying in front of Yori, on purpose. I ask you, is there a conflict between the two brothers as to which of them is the heir, or is there not?
http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
For sure, neither Yori or Ina feel disloyal over obstructing an assassination plot! Especially Ina, as it’s her dad who would’ve been assassinated. But she does hold this one particular bargaining chip, and she does want to put the breaks on the war.
clogboy
I agree. I just can’t remember if Hirotomo came up with the plot, or whether it was Nataku’s secret little scheme
clogboy
Oh yeah, the whole killing Masuhiro thing. I forgot. That might be part of the confusion. The other part is that I failed to explain how this plot twist makes sense in the patriarchical, feudal clan politics that are part of this story. I am rooting for the main characters here, but I don’t envy the time they’re born in.
The penance I’m talking about is that Yori and Ina wouldn’t be able to be together. The reason for that is because Yori ran away, the reason they’re fighting (and that Ina has to jump in and subject to clan politics) is because Ina ran away. Actions have consequences in this story.
It’s tragic, but to be fair also warranted, and their defiance was only justified and righteous because a war mongering general was meddling with clan politics (outside their knowing up to then, iirc). I’ve been looking for pages indicating why Yori ran off, and whether Hirotomo was planning to honor the peace treaty. Closest I could find in a hurry were pages 199 and 200.
Ocean Burning.
I think what you’re looking for is page 305-306.
clogboy
OK, got ya. Think I was still catching my breath from that epic sword fight a few pages earlier.
purplelibraryguy
Penance for their disloyalty? That sounds kind of like bushido–for which, I have it on good authority, they have No Need.
http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
Ina actually has three older sisters, who have all been married off to other clans. Honestly, this was going to be a more important plot point, but we actively scaled back the scope of a hilariously bloated plot a number of years back so don’t expect anything to come of Ina’s siblings.
We were gonna have the main cast travel from clan to clan, rallying Senshin clan support. Ina and Yori wouldn’t actually be a couple yet but they’d have to pose as being married (for reasons I can’t quite remember now). I would play out with a bunch of awkward sexual tension, with Ina and Yori meeting Ina’s sisters and trying to act like this happy couple. But that plot thread would’ve taken forever at the comic’s current pace, as amusing as I found the idea! Once NN4B is over I’m just going to share the myriad of plot threads that we ended up cutting or changing so the comic wouldn’t take another three decades to finish.
Turul
Oh, hey, nice to know! I had wondered about Ina’s sisters. :^) Looking forward to that cutscene material also.
Sunwu
when the Anime is made do you want those plot points put back in?
Turul
They’ll have to, how can the anime stretch over 10 seasons otherwise?
animalia555
My idea of the best end game scenario as aranged by Uncle Yukizano once he gets all the new information. Eijiro either becomes leader of the Wataro clan or becomes adopted into the Seishun clan. Ina and Yori marry and they take over which ever clan Eijiro is not a part of.
Sunwu
10 seasons and a movie
Ocean Burning.
Oh wow XD
Xinef
My guess as to why Ina and Yori would be posing as being married is:
a) So they can wave around a document saying “Ina and Yori getting married cements an alliance between Senshin and Wataro”, which is signed by Hirotomo and everything, and claim that the Wataro are not fulfilling their end of the deal and Senshin need allies to force Wataro to comply. And the whole “Yori being disavowed”, should the neighboring clans even know about it, is just an attempt by Hirotomo to trick his way out of the agreement.
b) Fanservice.
Now… we just have to figure out which of the two is more important…
… well, there’s also the explanation that neighboring lords may be male chauvinists, not willing to listen to Ina directly, but for them to listen to Yori they’d need to be convinced that Yori is speaking on behalf of the Senshin…
http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
That’s right! We’d had a lot more ‘no one listens to Ina because she’s a woman’ schtick planned back in the day.
purplelibraryguy
Tricks are for kids . . . well, maybe. But I remember the titanic struggle between the Dark Lord of Ubersoft and Robot Steve Jobs, at the end of which Robot Steve Jobs said, “That was a cheap trick!”
To which the Dark Lord of Ubersoft’s reply was, “And yet, I win.”
Um, Ina, are you sure that’s the best way to make the brothers stop fighting?
clogboy
Did not see that coming…
Hormones, the best way to derail young guns since the stone age lol. Cheap trick, Ina. Cheap but effective.
We’re really going to end this story Shrek style? 😉
Minando
Don’t flinch, Yori…
Kid Chaos
“…Psych! Had you going there, didn’t I?” 😜
foducool
brother-in-law-zoned
Yacc
ops.
clogboy
*chops Eji’s head off*
Yori: “Guess who’s the heir again!”
sylverdrag
That was my first thought as well.
Stewart
Honestly it is Yori’s best play here. Eji can’t let him live to challenge his claim so Yori is signing his death warrant if he lets Eji solidify his claim. Kill Eji here and then lay a claim on the Wataro seat with Senshin backing on the grounds of his fathers schemes to assassinate an ally by marriage. My guess is that the now leaderless Wataro Army will probably fall into line fairly easily. Especially considering the fact that Yori has now “lead” multiple successful battles and won duels with the best warriors of the Wataro. Better to follow a proven commander and get in good with the new regime than become a prisoner of war.
clogboy
Other than how Yori would solidify his image as a traitor? Kidnapping Eji would be a smart play, and then finding a diplomatic solution.
What Ina is doing now is taking a few shortcuts, honeypot him into co-operating. At least I hope so.
Stewart
They are in the middle of a battle. Just tell everybody that Eji died in the fighting.
clogboy
Politics schmolitics. He’s above that
cu
What you did there, we saw it coming. Page 736.
clogboy
Meaning herself? Bold sacrifice. Still trying to wrap my head around it.
Will Yori now give himself up to the Senshin clan? Like, in keeping wards? That would only work if Hirotomo cared about him, which he… might, seeing how he put him through trials, but he’s officially still condemned (and the two generals and five assassins who know about it now lie rotting).
Arkone Axon
Okay… how old is Eijiro? Because in pretty much ANY culture, a young adolescent male receiving an offer like that is going to have trouble thinking straight…
sylverdrag
Strange, I could have sworn Ina was the smart one.
She knows the “marriage arrangement” was a takeover ploy, and the Wataro clan has shown it’s intention to keep on conquering. There is no reason to think requesting an alliance while facing armed forces will do anything besides weaken their own position at the negotiating table, and the offer will most likely be interpreted as a trap.
Turul
I agree! Which makes me think she has to have some kind of a hidden “how to stop Hirotomo from murdering my dad” security somewhere in there, at the very least. And maybe more. Which I expect will come out in the open in near future…
Xinef
Well… at least now Senshin are controlling the ninja, and all Wataro special agents (demons of sorrow) are dead, so Hirotomo may be running out of options for a stealthy assassination.
Turul
Ah, but you forget the cunning birdfish! No one would ever suspect them.
Xinef
But what if the elephant falls on the birdfish?
Turul
Well. That would put a splat to the assassination.
Sunwu
*Record scratch*
Ejiro; Yep that’s me! You’re probably wondering how I got into this mess….
animalia555
I am beginning to wonder if Yori is going to have to kill his father?
clogboy
Chances are he’ll take his own life. His misguided decisions and unforgivable acts cost him his oldest son, most loyal friend, generals, ambassador and his honor. His paranoia is caused by Nataku’s betrayal, which set events in motion that backfired and that he can’t come back from. If at least Nataku would be alive for him to condemn and execute, this would be seen as an act of atonement.
I don’t know what place there will be for Eji, but I do hope Yori will assume his position, with Ina as his wife and Genchu and Ken as his generals. Eji could act as ambassador, if he’s willing to see the error in the path Nataku put him on. If not, he could rot in a Senshin jail cel but he deserves better.
animalia555
I love your idea
animalia555
@Suburban Samurai Are you familiar with the web reviewer SFDebris?
animalia555
I am going to take a gamble and say the central Theme of NN4B is that “You can’t always get what you want, but if you try some times you just might find you get what you need.” For example Ken did NOT get to kill Nataku, but he DID get the closure he needed. Cho did NOT get a simple answer to his dilemma, but he did get to broaden his horizons. And so on. I am expecting the same thing will play out with other characters.
themadpsychologist
Eijiro is about to receive a rude surprise. Yorikiro has passed his father’s test. He has defeated every member of the Demons of Sorrow.
purplelibraryguy
Of course this is all going to be moot when Cho ends the world. Which looks to be happening soon, being as how after the battle he should have the opportunity to meet the other requisite characters, and I can well imagine the gun salesman guy dragging them all into a bar.
Thomas
That fuse is getting awfully low! Time to resolve this stand off!
Stewart
Yori should cut the brats head off the second he drops his gun and then make a play against his father.
animalia555
There is now way this going to work and Yori knows this. Question did he tell Ina about that whole secret test thing? Because if Ina is unaware of it that might explain why she is doing it.
