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OH SNAP! (I couldn’t help myself)

So I finally got to the movie theater and saw Spydermen: Homecomers. It was a GOOD TIME, a top class action comedy! So I’m going to talk about it briefly, and there will be SPOILERS.

I don’t have a lot of problems with Homecoming, in large part because it IS a comedy, which lets it get away with quite a few leaps in logic and sudden scene changes without needing to bog itself down with minutia exposition. So my only real problems with the film feel like nitpicks, and they’re also the kind of problems that make me feel old! But I’ll just cover what I loved before I mention the stuff that let me down a bit.

Firstly, HOLY HECK, the mechanical designs in this movie are so freaking cool. The Vulture flying suit might be the coolest thing I’ve seen in a movie in a while, I definitely got some Metal Gear vibes from it. I also loved the setup for the main villain, it’s a great origin story hook.

Everyone in this film is incredibly likable. RDJ might be sick of playing Stark but he’s still great in the role and every time he shows up I’m smiling like an idiot. All the younger actors in the movie feel genuine. The whole vibe of the movie makes me feel good, which is nice because most of the time nowadays I am the living embodiment of darkness.

The plot has a nice clear flow to it, I didn’t really find myself getting hung up on any particular thing UNTIL… (okay, here comes the stuff that let me down some.)

The final action scene is kinda bad. It takes place at night on a plane with a bunch of flashing holographic panels that were desperately trying to give the movie audience a headache. The scene is so dark and the editing so fast and choppy that it’s nearly impossible to tell what’s going on.

Considering every other action scene up to that point was very readable and well done, I don’t really know what happened here. The stakes for the final scene also feel pretty low. Peter’s basically just trying to stop the Vulture from stealing some crates of weapons, something the Vulture has kind of already done to various degrees, so even though it is an escalation, it doesn’t really feel like one.

The scene preceding it is also Peter’s ‘darkest moment’, I guess, in which a ceiling falls on him and he feels helpless for a few seconds until he remembers he’s super strong and lifts the debris off of him. It just made me shrug my shoulders. I suppose it kind of illustrated that Peter found the will to believe in himself, but, I mean there were probably less ‘meh’ ways to do that.

So then the plane they’re fighting on crashes, and the Vulture punches Peter a few times, then decides to just steal a crate of weapons from the crash site, at which point Peter sees the Vulture’s suit is sparking and looking worse for wear, so he tries to websling the vulture, this time specifically to ‘save him’, by, I guess, grounding the Vulture and then explaining to him his flying suit is about to explode? This was definitely an “I read the script so I know what I’m supposed to do” moment, and not something that followed any sort of logical train of thought. Anyway, the suit explodes, but the bad guy isn’t killed, and Peter pulls him from the wreckage and carries him to a safe distance. Note that’s AFTER the suit explodes, but I guess there were some fires so the bad guy might have burned to death if Peter hadn’t moved him. Still, the fact that he was otherwise okay after his suit exploded seems pretty unlikely and anticlimatic. Then again they did both survive a shockingly destructive plane crash (the plane was being flown on autopilot so no bystanders in danger). Either way, it was a muddled and confusing final encounter, devoid of much tension because very little felt at stake.

I also felt pretty bad for Liz, Peter’s romantic interest in the film. She clearly likes him, and she puts up with a lot of crap from him, but she gives him the benefit of the doubt and goes to the Homecoming dance with him. Unfortunately her dad turns out to be the main bad guy, and then Peter awkwardly clues dad into his own secret identity. Peter then ditches Liz at the dance without providing any real explanation, and goes to stop her dad from stealing the weapons. So he essentially ruins her life both directly and indirectly, but at least he saved her dad! Still, poor Liz’s life is royally mucked up by her dad and Peter, and none of it was her fault. Considering everything works out for pretty much everyone else at the end of the movie, it’s kind of a bum wrap for her!

And lastly (and this is the part that makes me feel old), the film’s pacing is EXHAUSTING. I’ve complained about this in other films before, but it seems a common trend in modern movies. What’s also annoying is that this movie is over two hours long at this rapid pace. I think cutting the film down to an hour and fortyfive minutes would’ve notably improved my viewing experience. Homecoming rarely ever stops to breath and we never hang around in a single location for more than a few minutes at most. Few, if any, shots linger, and the pacing is generally frantic. It still works because this is a comedy film, but I do like a movie to slow down once in a while. Also, the action scene in the Washington Monument and the action scene on the ferry probably could’ve been merged into one big, tension building action scene that really played up a set piece moment and covered all the necessary plot points, instead of wildly jumping from one thing to the next. But I guess that’s just the age of movies we live in now! They have to write those scripts in a month with studio approval so they can get the filming done so they can fix it all in post production, that’s just how it works.

And now I think I have to do the obligatory thing where I decide my favorite Spiderman movie. Considering I haven’t watched any of the Raimi Spiderman films in years, it’s a tough call to make. I’ll admit that I found the first Amazing Spiderman film mostly forgettable, and the second one memorably awful, and the third Raimi Spiderman watchable but not particularly good. The original Raimi film honestly didn’t impress me that much when it came out, but Spiderman 2 was one of the rare comicbook films that made me actually cry, more than once. Spiderman Homecoming made me laugh a lot, but it didn’t punch me in the gut, so I’ll say my favorite is Raimi’s Spiderman 2. Here’s a funny video that explains near the end why Raimi’s Spiderman is better, if only by a little (totally subjective, but it’s an opinion I agree with).

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  • IDPounder

    Folicide?

    • tyersome

      I can’t beleaf you went there …

      • Kid Chaos

        His bark is worse than his bite. 😜

        • clogboy

          I didn’t see him draw his sword, don’t be bamboozled.

          • Xinef

            I can’t stemd all these puns.

          • IDPounder

            You folks really need to branch out a bit.

          • Kid Chaos

            We must get to the root of this problem. 😜

          • Jonathan B

            This thread seems to be flowering nicely.

  • LordBolanderFace

    Never go into the tall bamboo without a Pokemon. A wild Tadashii appears!

    I’m glad you liked Sploderman: I’m Home. The villain reveal (where he’s Liz’s dad) genuinely surprised me, something very few stories can (the only ones I can think of are this, Wreck-It Ralph, and Brandon Sanderson’s Warbreaker). Maybe I’m being nitpicky too, but I did not like Michelle’s reveal at the end. I know, I know, give her a chance, but why do they have to mess with established characters? That always rubs me the wrong way (don’t get me started on the Dark Tower movie). Also not sure how I feel about Spider’s suit practically making him Iron Spider. Giving him a sentient AI to guide him through everything almost feels like its cheating– which is why I’m glad they took it away for the final battle. Again, not sure about how I feel about Aunt May finding out his secret identity in his very first movie. That’s a pretty big thing to pull this early in his story.

    And there I go again. I can write a hundred pages of complaints and criticisms, but still end it with “But it was a good movie and I liked it” lol

    What did you think about Tony not doing anything about the thieves? I know he calls the FBI and says they’re below his pay grade, but… how? They’re stealing dangerous alien tech that, making weapons out of it, and selling it on the streets. Sure, don’t assemble the Avengers for it, but you’d think Iron Man would at least take some notice of it. Especially since they’re stealing from him.

    • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

      MAN, that twist in Warbreaker blew my mind!! When Vulture appeared at the front door, I instantly thought that he’d figured out who Peter was and had abducted his girlfriend and her family, raising the stakes SIGNIFICANTLY. That’s the kind of thing I’d expect from a Raimi spiderman film. It took a second before I realized he was the dad. It was definitely a quality twist that caught me off guard.

      A lot of your nitpicks sound like their from the point of view of a long time Spiderman fan. Outside of the films, I don’t really have any experience with the character (I haven’t even watched any of the cartoons, which is nearly sacrilegious of me since at least one of them had Greg Weisman behind it creatively), so I don’t have much investment in the ‘original vision for any of the characters. I personally loved the super high tech suit, but I just love scifi tech stuff! It was a major part of the plot, and it was something we hadn’t really seen Spiderman deal with in previous film incarnations. I’m pretty happy this didn’t feel like a tired take on Spiderman! The Amazing Spiderman films felt pretty low on creativity. Not to mention one of the defining features about Homecoming is that it’s part of a serial movie series, the set up is entirely dependent on the viewer understanding the context of this universe. It’s still a stand along story, but I love how it places itself so strongly within the MCU canon. Makes me feel like I’m tuning in for the next exciting installment of Marvel Super Friends or some such. I dig it.

      When Stark said it was below his pay grade, I figured “Well, this guy is just a do-it-yourselfer and not a monster from another planet or whatever, so maybe it makes sense to just let the FBI handle it, sure.” I mean there are only so many Avengers, and Stark himself sure seems like a busy guy, travelling all over the world! What I’m a little more questioning of is these alien explosive devices that explode out purple lasers that cleanly cut through stuff in such a way that no one is ever killed and structural integrity of buildings and vehicles is left almost entirely intact except for the sliced bits. AWFULLY CONVENIENT. And the one in his friend’s backpack that explodes from going through a metal detector? I can’t imagine that is producing more radiation than the incidental amount of radiation you’d get from spending the day out in the sun.

      • LordBolanderFace

        Just to be sure, are you talking about the Denth/Tonk Fa twist in Warbreaker? Because I am. He freaking telegraphed that twist FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, and I still didn’t see it coming!

        And yeah, while I still consider Amazing Spiderman 1 to be the best Spiderman movie, I’ll grant you that the “Peter discovering his powers” parts were obviously working too hard to not do the same thing as the Raimi movies, while still doing the same thing as the Raimi movies. Spider powers via skateboarding? Pleeeeeease.

    • purplelibraryguy

      Wait–he has some kind of stupid hi-tech suit with a sentient AI?! OK, yes, I am an old Spiderman fan and that is wrong on so many levels. First level, Peter Parker is a prole. His parents are dead, his aunt May is genteelly poor-ish. And on a superhero level, he’s also a prole. He never gets the funding, never gets to join the big federally funded groups like the Fantastic Four, has to work through college with stuff like his “Photographs of spiderman for the newspaper” scam. It’s part of his schtick, he’s a superhero on a shoestring, sewing up the rips in his outfit and stuff. He is often portrayed as scientifically brilliant, but the stuff he comes up with is small scale, chemical things he can put together by himself at university labs for zero dollars or peanuts. He does not go around in high-tech suits that cost millions. His enemies often do–Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Vulture sort of, even Doc Ock is the result of a dude getting fused with these hi-tech manipulator things–but he doesn’t.

      Second level, he don’t need no steenkin’ AI to tell him what to do in a fight. He’s clever and creative and he knows when he’s about to get whacked because spider sense. He once fought Wolverine in the dark toe to toe and avoided every blow with spider sense (which is good ‘cuz Wolvie would have only needed to hit him once).

      Overall, he’s all about the innate. He makes do with his own resources and his own powers, the superhero of the common man (specifically, common nerd); he is not Iron Man or Batman. So this suit sounds like a really bad idea and I’m glad it got toasted at the end and he won the main confrontation as proper Spiderman (if that was part of the point, then that’s OK).

      • LordBolanderFace

        To be fair, he didn’t MAKE the AI suit. Stark gave it to him, and then takes it away (not a spoiler, its the “I’m gonna need the suit back” line from the trailers). And he gets it back at the end of the movie anyway.

      • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

        This is the same suit Stark gave Peter in Cap America: Civil War, and the AI feature doesn’t appear until well into the film when Peter hacks into full suit functionality that was walled off with a training protocol. One of the major plot points is definitely that he comes to rely too much on the suit and doesn’t recognize his own value or whatnot. The arc is kind of forced, as I mentioned how the “Peter’s Darkest Moment” in the film is pretty lame and just comes and goes. I think your points illustrate some of the reasons the Raimi Spiderman is better than Homecoming Spidey. Homecoming is still a really fun movie with a very likable cast, and it fits in very well with the rest of the MCU.

      • Ladon

        Ok, bad news. Right now Spider-Man is the CEO of a powerful global company Doc Ock set up for him. He has massive resources at his fingertips including an armored suit that he made that enhances his powers and protects him from all kinds of projectiles. No AI though. The thing is though? He built the armor himself. Designed the company’s best selling products himself. Lived up to his own full potential and used the company as an extension of himself to do as much good as possible through humanitarian aid. But Homecoming Spidey? Tony gave him everything. Even his iconic look was given to him by Iron Man. Even when he hacked the suit to take full control of it like he did to the Iron Spider Suit in Civil War (comic) he had a friend do it for him. I loved Homecoming but I didn’t like that aspect of it. Spider-man is a do-it-yourself kinda guy but not in that movies he’s practically Tony’s pet.

        • Calvinius

          I would’ve much preferred if Peter had hacked the suit and disabled Tony’s restrictions by himself. And if he’d made some of his own improvements to the webshooters instead of having all the different webbing modes be something Tony put in.

  • Sunwu

    Tadashi:ahhh Doctor jones- I mean Captain americ-er….Yoriko we meet again…

  • clogboy

    Even his words can cut, apparently.
    Had the choice between Spiderman and WFTPOTA, and we went with War of the Apes. Didn’t regret it. It’s like the first and second movie had a meeting with modern war epics, and got their sh!t together. It was that awesome.

    • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

      I very much want to see that monkey movie.

      • clogboy

        You should. It’s fab. You’ll see flaws in it ofcourse but I am quite easily entertained. My girlfriend however is more critical and she absolutely loved it (though it irked her that they banked on the cute factor of a human child side character – you’ll know it when you see it).

  • Kid Chaos

    It is on like Donkey Kong! 😎

  • Turul

    Incoming DoS attack!

    (And since they have been coming one at a time, it’s a DDoS, or Distributed Demons of Sorrow, attack.)

    • tyersome

      soooo … you’re saying someone is going to get disconnected?

    • Kid Chaos

      I can’t help feeling that this is a bit out of order. Yori should’ve taken on Hono-Ko, then Tadashii. Mr. T (ha!) should be the final fight with the DoS, not the semi-final. 😈

      • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

        There is some thought put into the order of this, I assure you.

      • clogboy

        I have to agree, and I get a feeling where this is going.

        • Kid Chaos

          Two against one? Oh, crap. 💀

      • Jonathan B

        I’d disagree, because Tadashii is the one that can go either way. He’s loyal to his lord, yet he’s also very set on honor. Yorikiro possesses knowledge of multiple dishonorable decisions, both from his father and his brother. If Tadashii’s sense of honor were offended by these decisions, the result could be anything from changing sides to killing himself rather than face the divide between his loyalty and his honor. Since at present he neither knows of Yori’s father’s intent to betray the treaty and murder Ina’s father nor of Yori’s brother’s attempt to sabotage the treaty by having Ina’s father kidnapped. Both of which are now known to Yori. So there’s several directions his fight could go, and that can have an effect on the final larger fight, which is the invasion itself.

        Hono-ko, on the other hand, is unlikely to disapprove of his master’s course and enjoys killing. So he would still attempt to kill Yori regardless. On the other hand, finding out Nine-finger is conspiring against his master with the youngest son could lead to Hono-ko choosing either side, the master or the son, which has no relevance to Yori but lots of relevance to the larger plot. So there’s more story options for him spending time with Nine-finger right now than having him solo against Yori.

        • Xinef

          To me it feels like Honou-ko is most likely to ally with Nataku, simply because N is the most warmongering and bloodthirsty of the people in charge.
          I mean, Hirotomo may be backstabby and villainy, but war isn’t his only way to gain power. In fact, Hirotomo may prefer peace, once he rules all. However Nataku would probably prefer a constant state of war, and even if Wataro were to conquer the entire world, he would still find people to fight.

          Unless Hirotomo convinces Honou-ko that fighting against Nataku could be the more interesting option. I mean… Honou-ko may enjoy facing against Nataku… considering Nataku is probably one of the most challenging opponents one can find in the NN4B world. It all depends on if Honou-ko likes challenging opponents… but then again, Hirotomo himself would also be a challenging opponent… oh the decisions one has to make when they just want to kill stuff…

    • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

      I was struggling on how to turn this into a joke. Thank you.

  • clogboy

    Hope this five minutes of sparring earlier made him proficient in dual blade wielding.

    • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

      Duh, of course it did.

    • Jonathan B

      If you think about it, he’s now had TWO training montages with dual blades. That should make him master class at least. 😉

  • animalia555

    I LOVE Brandon Sanderson’s Cosmere

    • LordBolanderFace

      There are only two types of people who don’t: people who haven’t heard of Brandon Sanderson, and baby eating, puppy kicking commies. We don’t trust either.

      • purplelibraryguy

        Speaking of those two types, who’s Brandon Sanderson?

        • LordBolanderFace

          He’s an author. He’s also God. Take your pic, either way you’ll be worshiping him.

        • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

          Brandon Sanderson is primarily a fantasy writer. If you enjoy a tightly plotted book and consistently surprising plot twists, he’s your guy. Sanderson is also excellent at genre subversion and building off of great ‘what if’ scenarios. His passion is epic fantasy, and almost all of his books take place on planets in an interconnected universe, although he very deliberately writes each series to stand alone. He also writes very punchy and diverse characters who always play well off of each other.

          But what Sanderson is most recognized for is his magic systems, which are all unique to each series, consistently well thought out and given consequences, restrictions, and often mysterious origins that play out through the plot. He makes other fantasy writers’ use of magic tropes seem lazy in comparison. Fans often compare his magic systems to well balanced game mechanics.

          The first Mistborn trilogy is the series that usually gets recommended as the best Sanderson entry point. I’d probably agree with that, although my favorites are The Rithmatist, about a boy who can’t use magical chalk powers who attends a magical chalk users school, and The Stormlight Archives, his magnum opus ultimate high fantasy series with kingdom, knights, and giant snails, a planned ten volume series that’s currently two completed.

          • LordBolanderFace

            I’ve taken two huge inspirations from Sanderson in my own writing. If I write a high fantasy story, I always throw my own twist into the setting. No swords-n-sorcery, LotR knockoffs. One of them is set in a world that mimics America around when electric powered machines were becoming more popular, and the other is in a cowboy/western world.

            I also try to give all my magic rules now. I haven’t developed a system as complex as any of his, but I’m working on it, haha.

            Even after having read both Stormlight books, I still maintain that Mistborn is his best work. Stormlight is amazing, but the fact that Mistborn is EQUALLY amazing, while still being several hundred pages shorter, makes it better IMO. Still can’t wait to read Oathbringer! I read Rithmatist and enjoyed it, but I’m keeping a safe distance from it because from what I’ve heard he has no intentions of continuing that story. Not too disappointed, because if he has to drop any story I’d prefer it be that so he can work on Stormlight and Mistborn more.

            BTW, have you read his graphic novel? I think it’s called White Sands. I haven’t, but I want to.

    • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

      He’s certainly my favorite author, consistently delivering the smart thrills and great cinematic tapestries!

      • Kid Chaos

        I’m mostly familiar with the “Reckoners” and “Alcatraz” series. I’ll be sure to check out the rest. 😎

        • LordBolanderFace

          Reckoners is by far his WORST work. Doesn’t mean it’s bad (I tell people Sanderson’s worst walks all over everyone else’s best), but it still doesn’t hold a candle to Mistborn or Stormlight.

          • Knayt

            Clearly you need to familiarize yourself with some other fantasy literature. Sanderson is good, but there are plenty of others who are every bit as good.

          • LordBolanderFace

            I’ve read plenty of fantasy, and I have yet to find anyone I like better than Sanderson. I like Robert Jordan, but his books tend to drag. I like Patrick Rothfuss, but his second book was pretty terrible. As a writer myself, I have massive respect for Tolkien, but I can’t read his writing because it’s so sloooooow. I’m trying to read The Dark Tower series, but I’m just not a fan of King in general. Tad Williams is good, but he has the same problem as Jordan, bringing everything to a crawl. Sanderson is the only author I’ve found who’s been able to find the perfect balance between world building and action.

            Plus, Sanderson gives his magic rules, which makes it a tool for the characters to use and not a deus ex machina for them to fall back on when things get too bad. Combine that with his amazing ability to write fight scenes, and that by itself would have been enough to make him my favorite author.

          • purplelibraryguy

            Saying Jordan’s books “tend to drag” is like saying the ocean “tends to be damp”. People say Tolkien is slow, but he could give Jordan some serious lessons in pacing. And prose style, dialogue, consistency, ethics . . . better stop, I could be here all day. Jordan’s first two books were good (if derivative, especially the first), then he got lazy, and I felt like certain rather nasty aspects of his character started surfacing in the books. I should have given up at least two volumes before I did.

            Really, compared with the doorstops that have become standard in high fantasy these days, Tolkien’s stuff is now about average in size or even on the short side. And that’s per book–he finished his story in three books. Less, because a bunch of RotK is appendices. Steven Erikson’s Malazan Book of the Fallen took what, twelve plus two or three side novels, most of them longer than any single Tolkien volume. Don’t get me wrong–I love the Malazan stuff, and this Sanderson guy is going to have to clear some pretty high bars for me to consider it a more impressive/amazing/significant work of fantasy than the Malazan stuff. But it does go on rather, and there’s a general trend that way (which bloody Jordan did a lot to get going).
            One of the problems people have with Tolkien these days I think is that they’re expecting the template that people copied from him and that’s not quite what they get. It’s like, you read it knowing “This is a high fantasy adventure story” and at the beginning, knowing that, all you can do is wonder when we’re getting to the action and why is there this fluff about this town full of stupid little people. But it’s not fluff, it’s what the book is about, because it’s not a template heroic fantasy. If you read the Shire part on its own terms, it’s brilliant writing in itself; it’s like Jane Austen gentle social satire. Tolkien knew this world, the England of his youth still had this kind of gentle, gossipy town–and he also knew that this was the world that needed to be protected from horrors like the ones he went through in World War I. The books are not just about the adventure, they’re about the place. When other fantasy writers get descriptive it tends to be because they want to show you how cool this thing they thought up is. When Tolkien got descriptive it tended to be because the places described were important in themselves–which also meant that the adventure became important because those important places needed saving. That’s one reason people care about LoTR and Middle Earth in ways they tend not to about even very good fantasy books and worlds.

          • LordBolanderFace

            I own the first Malazan book, but I haven’t read it yet. My to-read list is already ridiculously long. I tried reading Drawing of the Three (Dark Tower book 2) but it failed to keep my attention. I meant for Terry Goodkind’s Wizard’s First Rule to be next, but I was looking around Barnes and Noble before work today and got Furies of Calderon by Jim Butcher as a pure impulse buy. Then I still have the fifth and sixth Mistborn books, Wheel of Time 3 and 4, and I really want to reread Stormlight Archives 1 and 2 before Oathbringer comes out. After that, I have any number of books just laying around that I honestly have no intention of reading, but I’d probably save a crap ton of money if I read them instead of buying even more books 😛

            You know, it’s actually been a really long time since I’ve even tried to read Tolkien. Like, in my teens. I should give it another chance.

          • purplelibraryguy

            Wizard’s First Rule is a fun little book. It was, unfortunately, quite successful and the guy wrote sequels. They went downhill fast; plot got grandiose but with nothing behind it, sense of humour disappeared, he went in for that mini-fashion for torture porn high fantasy seemed to have for a while (it was like there was this competition: Who could use icky magic to do the worst mind-rape?), and the plotting sort of fell apart. At one point I read a bit of an interview where Goodkind talked about deliberately avoiding world-building and I thought, “Well, that explains a lot.”
            But that first book was fun. Just don’t get tempted and think, “This is a pretty good writer, I should try the others”–No. No you shouldn’t. If you’re short on time and long on things to read, you may find that if anything a comfort.

            I’ve never actually read any of the Dark Tower stuff. I’ve had this vague “I really must get to that one of these days” feeling about it, but never quite done it. Part of it is that I haven’t tended to be impressed by horror writers who try doing fantasy–they tend to not respect it, not “get” it, and not be aware of what’s been done before. I did read this one little fantasy by King, “The Eyes of the Dragon”, and it was fun, but odd. It was almost refreshing the way it used cliches so innocently, as if he was inventing them from scratch (which he probably was).

          • LordBolanderFace

            The Eye of the Dragon was all right IMO. It’s actually a tie in to Dark Tower (well, a more direct tie in, I should say). When I read The Gunslinger, I couldn’t decide if King just had no idea how an epic fantasy quest should go, or if he was just going out of his way to NOT do any of that. If its the latter I can respect that, but when you intentionally start doing things differently there’s always the very real chance that it will royally suck. Not to say that Dark Tower sucks, it still has King’s signature style, but… well, I can’t help but wonder if it would still be as popular if anybody besides King wrote it. It feels more like I’m a reading a Native American drug induced vision quest than a high fantasy epic.

          • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

            I assume you meant King when you wrote Sanderon!

          • LordBolanderFace

            And I assume you meant Sanderson when you wrote Sanderon!

          • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

            I powered my way through Dark Tower! IT WAS TOUGH BUT I DID IT!!! My final feelings on the books amount to “That was alotta nonsense!” The movie that’s coming out looks like it took some concept from the books but appears to be a very different take on them (for one, it looks at least moderately entertaining).

            I read Furies of Calderon (well, all the Codex Alera books) because I love Dresden and want to love Jim Butcher unconditionally. Didn’t really care for the series. It wasn’t bad, it just, I dunno, didn’t do anything that made me excited to read it. I mostly just read it out of a misplaced feeling of obligation to the author. I also read his new book, the Aeronaut’s Windlass, and it also failed to really grab me, despite my loving the idea of airship battles. I wish he’s just finished the Dresden books already, but I’m sure he’s probably sick of writing them!

          • LordBolanderFace

            They say the Dark Tower movie is a sequel to the book series, not an adaptation. If you ask me, that’s just their way of butchering the story the way Hollywood loves to do, and then dodge the criticism for it.

            I mean, it’s hard for me to say this without sounding racist, but I can’t get over Roland being black. From what I’ve heard of the future books, his relationship with Suzannah is a huge part of the story. She’s a black woman who hates white men because she was crippled by white men, and since Roland is a white man it’s a great big emotional journey for them both. Making Roland black takes that element of the story away.

            Also… why is King okay with this? He spat venom all over Kubrick’s version of The Shining because of how different it was, even though it was the most successful King-based movie of all time. You can tell Dark Tower is going to be even worse just by watching the trailers, and yet King has given it his full recommendation. Whaaaaaa?

          • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

            SPOILERS

            Well, since the Dark Tower series is a time loop, I guess the movie could be a variation of Roland’s loop to continuously chase after the tower.Except in this version he’s black why not. But, yeah, saying it’s a sequel to the books is the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while. Just say it’s ‘based on the books’ and then it can be its own thing.

          • purplelibraryguy

            You certainly should (in my oh-so-humble opinion 😉 ).

          • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

            I read the first Malazan book, like, 8 years ago and even started the second book. But I was forcing myself through them specifically because everyone said they were great. AND I’m sure they are! But they read like books that think the reader is already familiar with the world and the characters, which is very frustrating to me, so I put down the second one and haven’t picked them up since. I assume they require some sort of extracurricular research to understand them, or the series elaborates on the world and characters further down the line and then you’re supposed to re-read the first books to really get them. Or maybe I was just not as into reading fantasy at the time as I am now!

            I read through Wheel of Time soley because Brandon Sanderson finished the series’ last three books on the Jordan Estate’s behalf. And they were easily the best books in the series, but still no where near as much fun to me as Sanderson’s original works. Overall I moderately enjoyed WoT, but agree that it was horribly paced, and too bogged down minutia. I couldn’t even tell you who the bad guys were or their goals.

            I also agree 100% with you on Tolkein because I first read LotR with that incorrect expectation that I was reading a standard high fantasy adventure novel. I did ultimately enjoy the books, but I mostly forced myself through them because the films were going to come out in the few years. Joe is a huge Tolkein fan and frequently re-reads LotR and The Hobbit.

            Sanderson’s writing prose is mostly utilitarian, but very readable. He paints some great cinematic moments, but his language isn’t particularly flowery of cryptic. He knows how to effectively use adjectives and is really great at writing legible, kinetic action scenes. You’re likely never going to have to pull out a dictionary or thesaurus when reading a Sanderson book.

          • purplelibraryguy

            Ah, I had heard that Jordan’s writing got much better after he died. So this is the same guy, huh.

          • LordBolanderFace

            I’ve heard a lot of people criticize Sanderson because a teenager could read his books. I always cock my head and ask what’s wrong with that, haha. In fact, I’ve seen the Mistborn books being sold in the YA section at my local Barnes and Noble before! I feel like Sanderson proves that having the characters do things is just as important, if not moreso, than world building in a high fantasy novel. He never bogs the pacing down with boring, unimportant bits of history, but at the same time I still feel like I have a comfortable understanding of his worlds and how they work.

          • purplelibraryguy

            Definitely does sound worth a read.

          • animalia555

            Here is the thing about Brandon Sanderson’s Cosmere. Just like The Dark Tower is meta-fiction that ties alot of Stephen King’s works together. The cosmere is a work of metafiction which ties alot of Brandon Sanderson’s works together (pretty much any of his works not set on Earth). The main difference is unlike King, Sanderson planned for this from the beginning so there should be more internal consistency (I haven’t read the Dark Tower yet. So I apologize if I was wrong about how consistent it was).

            Brandon Sanderson always loved big sprawling fantasy epics and the Cosmere is his attempt at one.

            At the same time he realized that not everyone is willing to invest in multiple books in order to get the whole story. That is why the Cosmere is broken down the way it is. Self contained stand-alone books and trilogies, that work by themselves, but also contain hints of the bigger picture. And even a certain character that crosses over between most stories if you are careful enough to look for him.

  • Xinef

    Tadashii was just hungry, and decided to prepare his favorite leaf salad, when Yori interrupted him!

    Will they share the meal? Or will they fight over it? This remains to be seen in the next episode of NN4B! Stay tuned!

  • Banjo Colucius Smythe

    I liked Liz’s arc from a storytelling perspective, if nothing else.

    The whole gist of it was kind of “look I know I’m important to you, but I’ve kinda got my own story going on and there’s no space for you in it.” For all of the indirect ways Peter may have related to her issues by the end of the film, he doesn’t really have any role to play in her *solving* those problems and so he isn’t important enough to be her focus.

    It kind of flipped the trope of the hero being the single most important character in everyone’s life, and made her feel more like a character in her own right than a plot device for his emotional growth.

    • http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

      That’s a positive way of looking at her character! I would still contend she got the shit end of the stick in the movie, though!

  • clogboy

    Also watched Spidey 2 now. Good one. Didn’t give the other Raimi movies a chance after his first Spider-man adaptation, so can’t really judge. But his tone does feel a bit heavy.
    I liked how this one was in keeping with the cartoon, but at the same time very much felt like it was from this day and age (Peter is not a camera guy but a video blogger). Also interesting to see a Spidey universe without Uncle Ben. Peter is obviously flawed for it, but more as a hero than as a person (he is still a kid, after all) and that’s where Tony Stark jumps in both as a coach and as a gear supplier. Good part for both of them. The suit felt too high-tech for my liking, but it offers some more story hooks to deal with Peter’s confusion about crime fighting and his own recklessness.
    Also rented X-Men: Apocalypse. Although there’s arguably more wrong with that one, these are two superhero movies that pleasantly surprised me.

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