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IDPounder

Although I imagine you’ve set yourself up for a lot of extra work with it, I as always enjoy your use of light in your work, Alex!

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

I’ll gladly accept the compliment, but my friend Cole has been coloring the comic since page 669 with only the most minimal of directions from me!

https://twitter.com/bpdkaiba
- IDPounder
  
  Well props to Cole, then! This page looks awesome with all the light-play.

joeflo ggg

I would prefer ‘righteous insubordination’ till my
execution…

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

It’s that whole ‘execution’ bit that I get tripped up on.

Jordan Hiller

I find it fascinating that the samurai/assassins under the command of Yori’s father would rather obey an order that they find personally abhorrent instead of taking a stand. Hell, they don’t even object to the orders. They just obey them.

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

‘samurai’ literally translates to ‘to serve’. A samurai is meant to serve his lord without question, and to give his life if asked. So they’re technically excellent samurai because they’re following Hirotomo’s orders to the letter.
- animalia555
  
  So it’s A Song Of Ice And Fire in Ancient Japan?
  - http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
    
    well, I mean, sure?
    - animalia555
      
      Ok not NEARLY as dark. But still the same “A knight/samurai is just a sword with ribbons” thing still applies to both of them.
    - animalia555
      
      Hmmm…. Does that make Tadashi NN4B’s version of Sandor Clegane as he is at least willing to admit his shit stinks?
    - http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
      
      Tadashii’s awfully polite to be The Hound’s facsimile. Maybe Nataku, or even Ken.
    - animalia555
      
      Nataku’s not honest enough
- Jordan Hiller
  
  Very true. Though I have to wonder if a daimyo/lord/whatever the proper term would be better served if said service wasn’t unquestioning.
- Nos Rin aka CTCO
  
  Agreed. Weren’t many samurai little more then dogs? obedient warriors who simply followed orders?
  Honestly any warrior from any nation is basically exactly this.
  - http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
    
    If we want to talk actual historical accuracy, the idea of Bushido and unquestioning loyalty to one’s lord was developed after the Tokugawa Shogunate had come to power and united the country and samurai had nothing to do but sit around writing poetry and thinking of ways to justify themselves as superior to the working class. Actual samurai who fought during the Sengoku and earlier eras could be promoted to the position from foot soldier, and were willing to change sides of they thought their side might lose or if they were offered better deals from opposing sides. Sure, feudal lords WANTED absolute loyalty, but under actual wartime conditions, people would often do what was best for them.
    - Nos Rin aka CTCO
      
      Okay cool! I did not know that, thanks for the history lesson!
      I know a lot of people talk about Bushido and Chivalry and stuff, but, ya. I dont think a lot of people fully understand it.
    - purplelibraryguy
      
      Thinking of, very similar things could be said about the more rarefied tenets of chivalry.
    - Nos Rin aka CTCO
      
      true true.
    - TheGorram Batguy
      
      Heh, so it was even more like feudal Europe than I’d known.
    - Xinef
      
      Also (as far as I know), seppuku wasn’t the norm the way it is often portrayed in modern popculture. While some samurai (including women, children and elderly)
      would commit suicide to escape capture by enemies (and slavery, rape,
      torture etc.), and some samurai would commit suicide as punishment by
      their lord’s order – the idea of committing honorable seppuku to clear
      one’s name after a lost battle or failed mission, or when your lord fell
      in battle… doesn’t sound like something that would be common.
      
      A warrior who lost his lord or disgraced himself would often just turn to
      banditry, become a mercenary, join another lord etc. If bushido were to
      be followed, ronins wouldn’t exist. Yet they did, in great numbers, and
      included some famous swordsmen of legendary skill and reputation.
    - http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
      
      Yeah, the whole story of the 47 ronin who committed seppuku after avenging their lord, arguably the most famous tale of ritual suicide, happened about one hundred years after the unification of Japan under Tokugawa and the end of warlord military conflict. It certainly wasn’t common practice to commit seppuku during war time, when soldiers were a valuable commodity.
purplelibraryguy

Well, that’s bushido. Why our nice people heroes have no need for the stuff.
Arkone Axon

This is one more example of why traditional Japanese culture was actually very FUCKED UP in a lot of ways… and also why the Japanese people today are happily moving away from it. You had rich and powerful jerks setting up the rules to ensure they’d stay in control. (This is also why Yagyu Munenori cautioned his Imperial students to be careful to be good rulers, or else the people would rise up against them. Not everyone shared such wisdom, though)

For a great example, check out the anime/manga “Bleach.” A recurring theme in the show is how the young Japanese protagonists interact with literally antiquated societies governed by leaders who hadn’t changed their thinking in many centuries, and after a societal upheaval things are modernized and BETTER than before. (This is why the first time Ichigo and his friends show up in the Soul Society they’re being hunted because “someone gave an order, so don’t question it” even though they were there because Rukia was being sentenced to execution without the benefit of a trial because “someone gave an order, so don’t question it.” Whereas by the end the Soul Society welcomes Ichigo and his friends with open arms whenever they show up AND express their gratitude for… teaching them a better way to do things).
- http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
  
  For sure feudal Japan was not a great place to live unless you were one of the elite class. I am amused that you would look to Bleach, of all places, as a worthy example of autocratic rule!
  - Arkone Axon
    
    I… didn’t. I held it up as an example of the exact opposite – a setting where the nobles of Central 46 were so accustomed to being obeyed without question that when “they” started making increasingly nonsensical demands regarding Rukia’s execution, nobody thought to wonder about it. After all, it wasn’t much different from Uruhara’s “trial” in terms of fairness and contemplation:
    
    “You have been accused of horrible wrongdoings!”
    “But… I didn’t do anything…”
    “How DARE you lie to us by denying the charges! The penalties will be even worse!”
    
    There’s an arc in the anime where a huge plot point is that the bad guys are 100% guilty and EVERYONE knows it… but even the Head Captain couldn’t accuse them because they were too rich and influential, so everything got buried for centuries.
    
    What Bleach is a worthy example of is how modern ideology is so much better – one of the recurring themes of the series is the young heroes looking at “traditions” that are causing so many problems, and letting the older generations know what they think about said traditions.

Athaic

Re: Valerian
Oh, so you noticed the multiple plot holes, too?
As a French and big fan of the graphic novels, I liked the middle part of the movie; the station’s features and a big chunk of the scenario were lifted straight from one of the books, “Ambassador of Shadows”. And I got to watch the 3 Shingouz in action (even if they got renamed).
Re: “illegal” – at the source, Valerian & co are secret operatives, more James Bond than regular cops, so sticking to legal actions is not supposed to be a big concern. They are here to right wrongs. But when they got rewritten as commando/regular military units… To top it, the two original characters are way more mature and follow humanist concepts (read – they don’t shoot someone to get info out of him).
And, yeah. Rampant sexual harassment. I would only re-watch the movie if all scenes with just Valerian and Laureline were removed.

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

I’ll give the movie this, it got me to put a hold on Valerian Collection Vol 1 at my library since I’m genuinely interested in reading the source material. Unfortunately, due to the sudden interest in the material, it’ll be a while before it reaches my turn in line.

I wish the movie had defined the workings of the station’s day to day routine (among other things). I wanted the station to be a character in the movie, but we never really get a sense of how all these species live together. But not only is this never elaborated upon, we’re also shown multiple instances of Valerian smashing up the station, discharging various weapons, and murdering inhabitants with seemingly no consequence, which makes it feel like a totally lawless space city where anything goes. Also Valerian is apparently indestructible, and guns are always more powerful and accurate when he’s holding them.

And let me complain about a few things!

The inhabitants of planet Mule see a spaceship get shot down. The climb inside and then their planet explodes. But somehow, the spaceship became invulnerable between the time it was shot down and the time the Mule residents climbed inside it because they they proceeded to survive in the derelict vessel for thirty years, as well as teach themselves the entire workings of the galaxy. They were then apparently picked up by scrappers and brought to the city-o-planets without the scrappers even being aware they were hauling an inhabited ship. Basically all of that makes no sense at all.

Also, when the Mule aliens launched their hologram blimp ship from the station, they somehow tied up the renegade general and left him hanging in the empty docking bay area? How’d they do that? I mean he was still alive even though he would’ve been in direct line of their ship’s engines, and exposed to the vacuum of space from the giant hole they blew in the wall!

Did Valerian know the blue bubble stripper was a slave? Are slaves legal on the city station? That seems pretty messed up, especially considering the movie introduces the place as a sort of space city of love and peace.

Did the three info broker aliens honestly not explain to Lorelein WHY they were taking her on a submarine until after they’d gotten the memory sucking jelly fish? Like she was totally cool with just going along with them and not asking any questions about what they were doing or how it would help save Valerian? Nothing about her character suggested she was so cavalier about trusting questionable characters.

There are like a million other plot holes and confusing situations I noticed, but I’ll stop there or I’ll be up all night.
- LordBolanderFace
  
  I wanted to be interested in Valerian, but I could pretty much tell from the trailers that it was going to be high on special effects, low on story. And whenever I see Cara Delevingne, all I can think is EYEBROWS!
  - http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
    
    Mm, sexy sexy eyebrows…
    - LordBolanderFace
      
      What I remember more than anything is their Facebook advertising strategy. Whenever somebody commented on the trailer, they would add that comment into it in a “Star Wars intro” kind of way. So you had a thousand versions of the Valerian trailer starting with things like “Joe this is the movie I was telling you about.” I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish with this, but they did it.
- Athaic
  
  Uh, I just realized I missed a few oddities because I read the books – by example, of course Laureline would follow the 3 info brokers, she knows them. Err, well, not the Laureline from the movie, actually, only the one from the books.
  Re: the blue stripper, I’m afraid this is not a plot hole (or not a big one) She has the same status as would have any prostitute in a similar situation in real life: in effect, an indentured servant to her pimp, because she is an illegal alien (pun almost not intended).
Nos Rin aka CTCO

I am intruiged now that I know, and should have known, that there are graphic novels for this. I rarely hunt them down off of movies but, what can you tell me, if you don’t mind discussing, about how much better the novels were?
I enjoyed the movie enough I’d maybe rewatch it and will probably buy it, but I agree it was heavily flawed. the romance was utterly pointless to me and waaayy too forced.

But the novels sound like they might be worth my time.
- Turul
  
  If you like space opera in general, you’ll probably like the Valerian comicbooks. They’re highly entertaining adventure in space, with lots of amusing and fascinating aliens and all kinds of general highjinks. (My favourites are the corrupt spy aliens called shinguzes which I think were in the movie as well?) They were actually a big inspiration for the original Star Wars movies. The individual stories can be pretty different, some are much lighter while others come off more philosophical or political/satirical. But the tone’s always a bit tongue in cheek. I’ve always loved the drawing style, it looks so casual and relaxed.
  
  Unfortunately I can’t compare how much better they are than the movie, because I didn’t watch the movie and am not planning to – movie Valerian and Laureline look all wrong to me so eh. 😉
  - Nos Rin aka CTCO
    
    can’t blame you there. I complete agree with suburban samurai on the plot but, eh. I enjoyed the action and comedy enough to watch it again. I guess my standards aren’t very high.
    
    So you’re saying they’re really old?
    Are they always based around Valerian and Laureline? I will look into them for sure.
    - http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
      
      The series started in 1967!
    - Nos Rin aka CTCO
      
      oh wow. Now I am debating on getting individual volumes or just getting the complete volumes. like 3 books on amazon for 70 or should I hunt down individual copies?
    - Turul
      
      Yeah – it starts with just Valerian, and Laureline comes along in the middle of the first album.
      
      And it’s probably just a good thing if you aren’t too hung up on plots making sense, because in the comics the resolutions can be sort of weird or mind-screwy, depending on the story. 😉
    - Nos Rin aka CTCO
      
      I mean, a believable plot is important sure, but I’m okay with a fun movie just being fun.
      I still want to get around to watching the new XXX movie with vin diesel, even though everyone said it sucked lol.
      I like the occasional guilty pleasure movie.
      
      But ya, I’m torn between getting individual volumes or the complete collection in 3 books.
      I need to get my finances straightened though so, we’ll see when I do get them. I already have too many books to catch up on.

animalia555

This reminds me of a discussion of the difference between external honor and internal honor. Can I assume you guys know the difference?

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

Sure. External horror is when a xenomorph is charging at you, teeth bared. Internal horror is when your plane just takes off on a four hour flight and you suddenly can’t remember if you left the oven on at home.
- Kid Chaos
  
  That’s not what animalia555 asked… 💀
- endplanets
  
  “Oh oh, so internal horror is the first half of Alien, and external horror is the second half?”
  **Gets smacked**
- animalia555
  
  I am not sure how to respond to this, it’s funny enough but I was trying to start a serious conversation on why what’s his name feels ANY choice he makes would be dishonerable.
  - animalia555
    
    Hmmm…. Does that make Tadashi NN4B’s version of Sandor Clegane as he is at least willing to admit his shit stinks?
- Thomas
  
  animalia555 asked about “honor” rather than “horror”.
suzuki_formerly_zack

ahem. external honor is personal honor to others; IE obeying your lord. internal honor is obviously personal, IE doing what you perceive is right.
- animalia555
  
  Exactly. Either Tadashi disobeys his lord, a choice lacking in external honor or he obeys him, but does something he finds personally abhorrent, a choice lacking in internal honor. That being said, as I’ve mentioned below when someone gives him a way to wiggle between the issues. To technically obey his lord, but doing so in a more honorable fashion I am sure he will take it.
purplelibraryguy

I’m assuming it’s somewhat like the (somewhat overhyped IMO) difference between shame and guilt (and whose cultures are supposed to emphasize which).

endplanets

**Ina pops out of bushes**
“I just came here to say {There Is No Need For Bushido}. K, Bye”
**Ina pops into bushes**

Major Tom

Tadashi: “Genchu never told you about your father.”

Yori: “He told me enough! He told me you served him!”

Tadashi: “No, I am your father!”

Yori: “No, it can’t be! That’s impossib-wait, how does that even work?”

Tadashi: “It was a very cold night and we had A LOT of sake.”

Yori: “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

“Before you die, there is something you should know about us. I am your father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate!”

“What does that make us?”

Absolutely nothing, which is what you are about to become!”
- Nos Rin aka CTCO
  
  so breaking that down, he’s his cousin’s roommate.
  - Chicken Soup For the Soul
    
    Or he’s HE’S (Yori’s) (former) roommate! :O
    - Nos Rin aka CTCO
      
      huh? what? what? huh? what? Meow.

LordBolanderFace

It’s hiiiiiigh noon. Maestro, give us some whistley cowboy music, please!

animalia555

On the subject of Cowboys does anyone else feel that it’s ironic that the same invevtion that led to their birth also met their demise was inevitable?
- LordBolanderFace
  
  … what?
  - animalia555
    
    The train. The train is the invention that made cowboys possible in that the westward spread of trains provided a destination close enough to make a cattle drive profitable and therefore provided a need for Cowboys to drive those cattle to market. However it wasthat same westward spread of the train that would eventually bring the the trains straight to cattle country, therefore rendering cattle drives and therefore cowboys unnecessary.
    - LordBolanderFace
      
      Nope, can’t say that that occurred to me while reading a comic about samurais and buddhist monks. So no, I did not find it ironic.
    - animalia555
      
      I only mentioned it because YOU brought up COWBOYS
Kid Chaos

Well, since you asked so nicely… 😜

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1PfrmCGFnk

Sunwu

Ahh the classic servant deliema, to do whats right or obey your lord. Next time on no need for Downton Abby we’ll see how the down stairs at Ina’s house deal with their duties

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

Downton Abbey could use more sword fights.
- Turul
  
  LBR, most things are better with sword fights.
  
  https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e3a03bcd2d59988eff98151ee45ea63bdf7ad89953505af8260ae4a7c32f5c0e.png
  - http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
    
    Yori is emotionally torn that he’s being forced to fight his old sword master, but deep down he’s like “YEEEESSSSSS!”

Alan Dillman

So he’s gonna fake his death!

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

WHICH ONE??
- Senjiu Kanuba
  
  Both! At the same time!
  - TheGorram Batguy
    
    “Verily, I am slain!”
    “I, too, am slain, verily!”
    “I shall now fall to my death just over this survivable cliff, out of sight. No, don’t bother trying to find a body.”
    “My body too, shall surely be picked clean by the local scavengers. Ina! My dear! Do not bother looking for me in that one place we always talk about. I shall never again return there…particularly not two days from now between the hours of 9AM and 5PM.”
    *Cue duet of badly acted over-the-top death gurgles, followed by unconvincing ‘tripping’ over the edge of the cliff.*

Turul

I feel pretty bad for Yori. And Tadashii, too, actually.

(but of course I’m also internally enjoying that, so :P)

animalia555

I was just thinking if there was a way for Tadashi to keep his vows of service without having to perform orders that disjust him he would take such an out in a second. I have a sneaking suspicion that the story is heading in such a direction. Mind if I share the details of said theory with you guys.

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

Feel free to theorize! But don’t expect me to confirm anything!
- animalia555
  
  I never would. That being said I would love to hear what my fellow readers think of possible my theory is.
  - animalia555
    
    Anyways it starts of on the premise that Yorikiro might not be as disinherited as he thinks he is. When his father was serious about trying to assinate Genchu he sent all four of the Demons of Sorrow after him at once. With Yorikiro he specifically gives them orders to go after him one at a time. Combine this with a cryptic line about seeing what his son’s honor is worth (I don’t remember the exact words, sorry) and it seems clear to me that this is less an assassination attempt, and more him testing his son. He’s going “you really think you can survive in this world and try to cling to honor? First try surviving against my four deadly assassins with your honor intact, if you can somehow do that you can become my heir again.”
    
    As for why I belive Tadashi will be able to have a way to keep his vows AND not have to follow orders he finds disgusting anymore. That’s why Genchu is on his way to the battle scene. If Yorikiro learns about the difference in the way the Demons of Sorrow have been sent after him vs the way the they were sent after Genchu he will probably be able to put two and two together about his father’s true motives.
    
    While this won’t make make Yorikiro like his father anymore, it DOES give him the potential to offer Tadashi an out. (Depending on the details of the oath Tadashi took) Tadashi can serve Yorikiro instead of his father.
    
    While I do imagine he Yorikiro would have to defeat the final Demon of Sorrow first, I believe Tadashi would otherwise be ok with that if the Genchu/Tadashi flashback is anything to go by.
    - animalia555
      
      That being said I am curious where the story arc this would start lead Yorikiro. He would definitely feel obliged to take control of his clan, not just because of the promise with Tadashi, but now that he knows he hasn’t been disenherited (exactly) so that he could try to change it as leader. On the other hand, how would he go about such a thing? It’s hard to imagine his dad stepping down early, and Yorikiro would probably be very worried that if he tried to forcibly remove his father he might become just like him.
      
      It is a situation packed with drama
- Jonathan B
  
  Schroedinger’s Samurai? 😉
  - animalia555
    
    I was thinking more damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
  - Turul
    
    When you open the box, he has either committed seppuku, or not.

Nos Rin aka CTCO

(I came here just to see if you mentioned Valerian and you did. Excitement! time for my rant!)

Ah, what to say about Valerian.
I enjoyed it. The visuals were amazing. The action scenes were enjoyable.
But do I disagree that it was a mess? Ha. No. I’m a stronger believer that good visuals alone do not make a good movie!
The main character was Indeed, unlikeable. He felt too flat and emotionless, although I felt there was a lot of that in many of the characters.
I felt the romance was terrible between them. Acceptaple concept but very poorly executed and I honestly wanted her to say no in the end. I was annoyed she fell for him but we can’t have her not can we?
The “science” behind that first beautiful paradise. Odd but I accept it. That ship reckage surviving a blowing up planet and somehow able to sustain the people. Uhm. What the hell? how? No. I call BS. whatever though, I’m not too nitpicky.
The matter transportation stuff was weird but neat but, why would you have that kind of place in a hot desert?
And did that guy die when the dog attacked his hologram?
Also nice to see no one shed a tear for dead soldiers. *sarcasm* Didn’t expect them all to die but I’m not surprised.
You know what else didn’t surprise me? the plot.
Maybe I’m jaded. Maybe I’ve seen too many stories.
But oh wow look at this beautiful paradise and this pure and innocent girl.
IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED.
Like maybe a war in the sky and wreckage destroys their paradise…
OH LOOK THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.
And I bet the innocent girl we first meet dies.
Oh ya. she dies.
I honestly expected that the entire scene and was not surprised.
Not too surprised Bubble died. Him being nice to her was a bit cliche too but, eh.
Oh and nice to hear them talk about risking a political incident with those weird primitive creatures (that maid was funny though.) and then when they kill them all nothing is said of it.

You know what else was predictable? That commander, (who outranked a general or something?) and his damn robots. Of course they didn’t try and hide it but still. A very predictable movie.

Oh and that running sequence was cool and all but I highly doubt all those environments would be right next to each other and how do you make an upside down number mistake with an advanced hologram like that?!
And how exactly did their technology work to bring back their planet? are they going to make a new planet and repopulate it? make more creatures? Or just live on in that tiny ship, in maybe some pocket dimension?

Uhg, ya, what a mess. I thought I was going to see different WORLDS, not just a single space station with various lifeforms and, 9 million humans and compatible other humanoids. oh, ya, they went there. in the great immortal worders of tucker, bow chicka wow wo.

The movie wasn’t what I expected and was indeed a bit of a mess and quite strange and had a romance that was just not needed. I mean him trying to bed her, I was fine with that, but her actually liking him back, meh. Maybe she had fallen for him already but needed more but, ya. It was just way too forced. He basically settled down just so the plot could happen. completely unnatural.

All that said.
Will I still buy the special edition of the blu-ray??
You bet your ass I am going to throw my money away like that!!!

http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai

I’d never venture to tell you what to spend your hard earned money on, but I can safely say I’ll never watch the movie again unless it’s part of a group movie night and I’m not the one choosing the film. I feel my time has grown far more precious to me, and since I see movies in large part for compelling, or at least entertaining, character driven narratives, I just don’t want to waste time on movies that so utterly fail at it.

The level of storytelling incompetence on display in Valerian is so egregious that I spent almost every scene thinking about all the ways they could’ve done it better. Heck, the whole sequence with Laureline getting kidnapped and Valerian recruiting Bubble to help him save her, and then Bubble dying all had NOTHING to do with the main plot and could’ve been completely cut from the film. Also, nothing makes sense and basically all the jokes fall flat because you’re too busy just trying to understand why anyone is doing what all the nonsense stuff they do.

The big climax of the film is when the good guys very easily dispatch all the menacing robots. Woopity doo, how exciting. Did you notice that Valerian shoots his gun vertically through one of the robots, from groin to head, and its head pops off? But then he takes cover behind a robot and a million bullets can’t get through it to hit him. Contradictory much? (same deal with the warship that got shot down but enemy fire, but then was indestructible enough to survive a planet explosion). This kind of crap story telling highlights the INTENSITY of the lazy writing going on in the movie!
- Nos Rin aka CTCO
  
  oh boy. ya. it was pretty bad. why did he have to sit down and watch her dance (sexy dance i’d watch again though. :3) and ya that was too drawn out.
  And totally. I could take him using the robot for cover for like a few seconds, but then he dropped down and then STOOD BACK UP TO KEEP USING IT LIKE IT WAS FUCKING ADAMANTANIUM OR SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!
  And oh ya, Bubbles died, why? because Little Miss Plot Device was no longer needed and they ran out of money to pay Rhiana. uhg. like. I’m TIRED of that cliche. “oh we’re done with this character. Kill them off.” fuck’s sake. I saw an anime where the girl was super smart and a prestige and etc etc and the city was being bombed and everyone ran out and was PERFECTLY FUCKING SAFE but no, gotta go run back and die while a dog barks at my corpse all over a picture of my dead little brother because heaven forbid this useful character stick around and they keep the voice actress on.
  How fucking hard of it would it be for them to be like, “Hey thanks for the help, but I’m going this way.” in either situation. NOT HARD AT ALL. but NOPE. we need DRAMA!!!!!!!!!!
  But ya, that scene could have definetly been cut. there were some Entertaining Scenes in that arc. But I agree, completely UNNECESSARY to the plot for sure!
  
  but hey, maybe his gun is extra strong and their own guns suck??? lol.
- Nos Rin aka CTCO
  
  Also let me ask you this on another point. Plotholes aside.
  Did the main character HAVE to be likeable? I know most of the time people prefer to agree with the main character or not hate them, but what if we’re supposed to dislike them? Or at the very least they are dislikable at first because they want to sell a story of redemption?
  
  As for me wasting money on the blu-ray. There were fun action scenes and I’d like to look for things I missed. But, I mean, I have way too much on my plate so it will probably collect dust, but I am a collector of movies so. eh.
  
  Ya. I agree 100% could have been so much better story wise.
  - http://www.nn4b.com suburban_samurai
    
    There are obviously exceptions to rules, but if a main character isn’t likable, I’d at least like to understand his reasoning and motivations. I mean, Frank Underwood from House of Cards is a horrible, unlikable person, but he’s still a complex character with clear motivations and goals and it’s entertaining to watch him achieve them in his own demented way.
    
    In the case of Valerian, though, or scifi action adventures in general, a likable, or at least relatable, main character can help ease the viewer into the film’s crazy fantasy world. Not only do I not like Valerian because he’s a walking sexual harassment lawsuit and seems to have no regard for innocent life or choosing the most obviously moral decisions over his nebulous duties, I also have NO IDEA who Valerian is, his background, his likes, his dislikes, his goals in life (other than to sleep with Laureline), or even the scope of his responsibilities as a federal agent. It’s infuriating because the movie has almost no narrative flow. We basically just watch Valerian and Laureline receive orders to do things and they don’t ask why they’re doing them or what methods they’re authorized to use. We have no idea what’s at stake! Since they murder so many aliens and destroy so much property, I get the sense that they have carte blanche authority, but at the same time other federation members don’t seem to take them very seriously. We also don’t know why they’re so YOUNG. If Valerian is the best federal agent ever, how did he achieve that at the age of 22 or however old he is?
    
    And, Nos Rin, I know you liked the action scenes, but I honestly thought they were awful. There was no tension to any of them. Characters would get thrown around and bounce off walls like they were cartoons .Valerian should’ve at least broken his arm when he had it stuck in the transporter and fell through about ten levels (much less broken his spine). There was never a sense that the main characters were in any danger, and that makes action scenes a big fat waste of time. All the special effects and dazzling wire-fu can’t raise the tension of the action scene when you’ve already established your main character is basically invincible.
    
    Now think back to the action scenes in Fifth Element. Leelu gets shot near the end of the flim! Corbin gets cut up and knocked around a bunch. There’s a physicality to it, even the car chase feels dangerous, with bullets tearing through his cab and him just barely outmaneuvering the cops. There’s tension in the action scenes, and the peril for the characters feels real. We also know who Corbin Dallas is and what he wants in life, it’s established with the introduction of his character. It’s not revolutionary storytelling, so the fact that Valerian utterly fails at this, despite being from the same creator, frustrates me to no end!
    - Nos Rin aka CTCO
      
      All of this also very true, but I think we are both two very different movie goers.
      You seem to need to have everything make sense and be at least somewhat in the realm of reality. Which makes sense. What fun is it if the character just shrugs everything off.
      It’s why Diehard 1 was so good and Diehard 5 was just, eh.
      Like the expendable films though. they were guilty pleasue action films,the entire point was just seeing old action heroes shoot up a lot of bad guys.
      
      As for who he is, I’m more leanent. I’m okay with not knowing everything about a character, although in fifth element you know exactly who they all are.
      Corbin Dallas is an ex military divorcee working as a taxi driver.
      Ruby Rod is a pop sensational radio(?) host.
      Lelu is, is she the fifth element? Man there was a few weird things. Like when they grew her from A hand in a glove but that hand was still human?
      Was she that statue in the beginning of the movie? Never found out her origin.
      
      Still. As much as I like to just roll with a movie and give it the benefit of the doubt most of the time.
      There were some definite issues.
      Sexual harassment aside I felt Valerian was a very flat monotone boring character who was just there to make a girl fall in love with him and kill a bunch of aliens along the way. He was a very boring character.
      
      As for sense of Danger, well, I guess I’m one of those people that when I get sucked into a lot of action some part of my brain shuts off and I don’t think too much about those things. It honestly never occurred to me once that his arm should have broken.
      My mind if anything was wondering how the whole two different areas worked with this virtual reality thing.
      But hey, maybe he’s a genetically modified super soldier with extra strong bones? lol.
      I do agree though, gotta check out the graphic novel, looks interesting.
      
      It sounds to me that you need to have structure. And structure is good. It helps frame a story and gives us, clarity? is that what I want to say. It adds and helps a lot.
      I’m more of one of those people that is fine with just being entertained as long as it’s not too ridiculous.
      Sometimes a chaotic mess can be fun. Sometimes, not always.
      I saw SW-VII twice in the theatre, and I aimed to pick it apart the second time, but I was simply drawn in and enjoyed every minute of it.
      I 100% agree that film could have been much much better, but I enjoyed it for what it was.
      
      Still though. I definitely see your point. I’ll probably see it more when I do watch the movie again. I want to know if I will still enjoy it.
      It’s a chaotic mess but there’s a lot of cool stuff I feel at the very least I could pull inspiration from in my story writing.

animalia555

By the way, I have been meaning to ask, does the the way that Yorikiro is DESTINED to wield two swords mean he is some sort of Miyamoto Musahi expy?

TheGorram Batguy

Turns out, “Miyamoto Musashi” is his stage name. We’re watching improbable history playing out right here! All those unknowns about Musashi’s youth? Answered in this comic.
- animalia555
  
  Speaking of which has anyone else ever read the manga Vagabond?

purplelibraryguy

I will be amused if he totally iaijutsu quickdraws the sword and then lays it at our hero’s feet, saying something all cool-like along the “There is no choice but honour” kind of lines and it turns out he was storming over letting nothing stop him from offering his service.

animalia555

I think something like that will happen after the battle. Once it becomes clear to everyone that Yorikiro’s father is testing Yorikiro anyway.

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